Subject: Re: Ruby, Ferrie, Braden & co. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:31:09 -0500 From: Russ and Carrie Burr Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk BigDave11 wrote: > > >>Subject: Re: Ruby, Ferrie, Braden & co. > >>From: Roger Byrum > >>Date: 2/26/99 7:30 AM Eastern Standard Time > >>Message-id: <36D693CF.7E97@erols.com> > >> > >>BigDave11 wrote: > >>> > >>> >On 22 Dec 1998 19:51:24 GMT, blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst) wrote: > >>> > > >>> >>Tony wrote: > >>> >>>I seriously doubt that the Oswald who was arrsted and killed by Ruby > >had > >>> >>>anything to do with the Tippit killing. > >>> >> > >>> >>I know what you're saying, that each piece of WC evidence can be > >>> >>challenged in some way, but Oswald was headed in that general direction, > >>> >>several witnesses are sure they saw him in the vicinity of the crime, > >and > >>> >>the shells allegedly found near the crime apparently matched the gun > >>> >>apparent ly owned by Oswald and apparently found in his posession at the > >>> >>theater. Although I couldn't rule it out, that's a lot of evidence for > >>> >>someone to have manipulated. But I have no firm conclusion about his > >role > >>> >>or non-role in the shooting. > >>> >> > >>> >>I have stated here, though, that I think the evidence shows that Oswald > >>> >>was a weird character whose behavior is hard to reconcile with complete > >>> >>innocence. > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> >Conspiracy people really would be well-advised to admit that Oswald > >>> >killed Tippit. > >>> > > >>> >His having done so would fit fine into some varieties of conspiracy > >>> >theory. Oswald might have done it in self-defense (with Tippit being > >>> >given the task of eliminating the patsy), or he might have simply > >>> >panicked when stopped by Tippit, notwithstanding his not having shot > >>> >JFK. He presumably knew he was a "patsy" by this point. > >>> > > >>> >The worst problem with having Oswald innocent of the Tippet shooting > >>> >is that it requires dozens of conspirators lying, forging evidence of > >>> >Oswald's guilt, etc. AND DOING SO WITH NO ADVANCE NOTICE. > >>> > > >>> >Assume he was a patsy, and you pretty much have to assume he wasn't > >>> >supposed to get out of the Depository, and certainly not supposed to > >>> >live through his encounter with Tippit. But then when he did we are > >>> >supposed to believe the Evil Minions of The Conspiracy swung into > >>> >action on a moment's notice and framed him for a shooting that he > >>> >wasn't supposed to do. > >>> > > >>> >.John > >>> > > >>> > >>> You would think if he was setup as a patsy, he would have been killed > >>> sooner. It always seemed odd to me that within 90 seconds of the shooting, > >>> a cop runs inside the building to the second floor and has a gun pointed > >>> at Oswald. Then Truly comes in and says "He's alright, he works here." Is > >>> there any chance at all that Truly interrupted the killing of the escaping > >>> assassin? Just a wild thought. :-) > >> > >>Now that is an interesting thought. But Baker had time to kill Oswald > >>before Truly got there. > >> > >>Roger > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >A wild thought indeed. If all the police officers in Dallas reacted as > >quickly and professionally as Marrion Baker did that day, there might have > >never been a mystery about the assassination to begin with. > > > >Dave Reitzes > > > What was Oswald doing that was so suspicious? There were people running about > all over the place. I'm sure there were other people in the building too. It > just seems odd to me that Baker ran straight to Oswald and pointed a gun at > him. > Does anyone else feel this way? > > BigDave :-) No, I don't.....Baker entered a building that he thought shots were fired from and had no idea who he'd confront. Oswald didn't need to act suspicious for Baker to approach him. This is a bit of his WC testimony: QUOTE: Mr. BAKER. And then there are some inner doors and another door you have to go through, a swinging door type. As I entered this lobby there were people going in as I entered. And I asked, I just spoke out and asked where the stairs or elevator was, and this man, Mr. Truly, spoke up and says, it seems to me like he says, "I am a building manager. Follow me, officer, and I will show you." So we immediately went out through the second set of doors, and we ran into the swinging door. Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, during the course of running into the swinging door, did you bump into the back of Mr. Truly? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; I did. Mr. BELIN. Then what happened? Mr. BAKER. We finally backed up and got through that little swinging door there and we kind of all ran, not real fast but, you know, a good trot, to the back of the Building, I was following him. Mr. BELIN. All right. Then what did you do? Mr. BAKER. We went to the northwest corner, we was kind of on the, I would say, the southeast corner of the Building there where we entered it, and we went across it to the northwest corner which is in the rear, back there. Mr. BELIN. All right. Mr. BAKER. And he was trying to get that service elevator down there. Mr. BELIN. All right. What did you see Mr. Truly do? Mr. BAKER. He ran over there and pushed the button to get it down. Mr. BELIN. Did the elevator come down after he pushed the button? Mr. BAKER. No, sir; it didn't. Mr. BELIN. Then what did he do? Mr. BAKER. He hollered for it, said, "Bring that elevator down here." Mr. BELIN. How many times did he holler, to the best of your recollection? Mr. BAKER. It seemed like he did it twice. Mr. BELIN. All right. Then what did he do? Mr. BAKER. I said let's take the stairs. 249 731-219 O--64--vol.III---17 Page 250 Mr. BELIN. All right. Then what did you do? Mr. BAKER. He said, "Okay" and so he immediately turned around, which the stairs is just to the, would be to the, well, the west of this elevator. Mr. BELIN. All right. Mr. BAKER. And we went up them. Mr. BELIN. You went up the stairs then? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. When you started up the stairs what was your intention at that-- Mr. BAKER. My intention was to go all the way to the top where I thought the shots had come from, to see if I could find something there, you know, to indicate that. Mr. BELIN. And did you go all the way up to the top of the stairs right away? Mr. BAKER. No, sir; we didn't. Mr. BAKER. What happened? Mr. BAKER. As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there. Mr. DULLES. Where was he coming from, do you know? Mr. BAKER. No, sir. All I seen of him was a glimpse of him go away from me. Mr. BELIN. What did you do then? Mr. BAKER. I ran on over there Representative BOGGS. You mean where he was? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. There is a door there with a glass, it seemed to me like about a 2 by 2, something like that, and then there is another door which is 6 foot on over there, and there is a hallway over there and a hallway entering into a lunchroom, and when I got to where I could. see him he was walking away from me about 20 feet away from me in the lunchroom. Mr. BELIN. What did you do? Mr. BAKER. I hollered at him at that time and said, "Come here."He turned and walked right straight back to me. Mr. BELIN. Where were you at the time you hollered? Mr. BAKER. I was standing in the hallway between this door and the second door, right at the edge of the second door. Mr. BELIN. He walked back toward you then? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. I hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit 497 which appears to be a diagram of the second floor of the School Book Depository, and you will notice on this diagram there are circles with arrows. I want you to state, if you will, what number or the arrow approximates the point at which you were standing when you told him to "Come here". Is there a number on there at all or not? Mr. BAKER. This 24 would be the position where I was standing. Mr. BELIN. The arrow which is represented by No. 24, is that correct? Mr. BAKER. That is correct. On Exhibit 497. When you first saw him in which direction was he walking? Mr. BAKER. He was walking east. Mr. BELIN. Was--his back was away from you, or not, as you first saw him? Mr. BAKER. As I first caught that glimpse of him, or as I saw him, really saw him? Mr. BELIN. As you really saw him. Mr. BAKER. He was walking away from me with his back toward me. Mr. DULLES. Can I suggest if you will do this, put on there where the officer was and where Lee Oswald was, or the man who turned out to be Lee Oswald, and which direction he was walking in. I think that is quite important. Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir. We are going to get to that with one more question, if I can, sir. When you saw him, he then turned around, is that correct, and then walked back toward you? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. 250 Page 251 Mr. BELIN. Was he carrying anything in his hands? Mr. BAKER. He had nothing at that time. Mr. BELIN. All right. Were you carrying anything in either of your hands? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; I was. Mr. BELIN. What were you carrying? Mr. BAKER. I had my revolver out. Mr. BELIN. When did you take your revolver out? Mr. BAKER. AS I was starting up the stairway. Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, turning to Exhibit 497, if you would approximate on Exhibit 497 with a pen the point at which you saw this man in the lunch room when you told him to turn around. Mr. DULLES. Could we get first where he first saw him. Representative BOGGS. You have that already. Mr. DULLES. I don't think you have it on the chart where he was. Mr. BELIN. This is when he first saw him after he got in the room, sir. If I can go off the record. Mr. DULLES. What I wanted to get is where he first saw him as he was standing down here, as he was going up the stairs and stopped and then in what direction he was--he seemed to be moving at that time before he saw. Mr. BELIN. Just answer the question, if you will. Where were you when you first caught a glimpse of this man? Mr. BAKER. I was just coming up these stain just around this corner right here. Mr. BELIN. All right. You were coming up the stairs at the point on Exhibit 497 where there are the letters "DN" marking down. Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. And you saw something move through a door which is marked as what number on Exhibit 497? Mr. DULLES. Where was he when you first saw him? Mr. BAKER. At this doorway right here, this 23. Mr. BELIN. At 23. Representative BOGGS. May I ask a couple of questions because I have to-- Mr. BELIN. Surely. Representative BOGGS. Were you suspicious of this man? Mr. BAKER. No, sir; I wasn't. Representative BOGGS. And he came up to you, did he say anything to you? Mr. BAKER. Let me start over. I assumed that I was suspicious of everybody because I had my pistol out. Representative BOGGS. Right. Mr. BAKER. And as soon as I saw him, I caught a glimpse of him and I ran over there and opened that door and hollered at him. Representative BOGGS. Right. Mr. DULLES. He had not seen you up to that point probably? Mr. BAKER. I don't know whether he had or not. Representative BOGGS. He came up to you? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; and when I hollered at him he turned around and walked back to me. Representative BOGGS. Right close to you? Mr. BAKER. And we were right here at this position 24, right here in this doorway. Representative BOGGS. Right. What did you say to him? Mr. BAKER. I didn't get anything out of him. Mr. Truly had come up to my side here, and I turned to Mr. Truly and I says, "Do you know this man, does he work here?" And he said yes, and I turned immediately and went on out up the stairs. Mr. BELIN. Then you continued up the stairway? Representative BOGGS. Let me ask one other question. You later, when you recognized this man as Lee Oswald, is that right, saw pictures of him? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. I had occasion to see him in the homicide office later that evening after we got through with Parkland Hospital and then Love Field and we went back to the City Hall and I went up there and made this affidavit. 251 Page 252 Representative BOGGS. After he had been arrested? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. Mr. DULLES. Could you tell us anything more about his appearance, what he was doing, get an impression of the man at all? Did he seem to be hurrying, anything of that kind? Mr. BAKER. Evidently he was hurrying because at this point here, I was running, and I ran on over here to this door. Mr. BELIN. What door number on that? Mr. BAKER. This would be 23. Mr. BELIN. All right. Mr. BAKER And at that position there he was already down here some 20 feet away from me. Representative BOGGS. When you saw him, was he out of breath, did he appear to have been running or what? Mr. BAKER. It didn't appear that to me. He appeared normal you know. Representative BOGGS. Was he calm and collected? Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. He never did say a word or nothing. In fact, he didn't change his expression one bit. Mr. BELIN. Did he flinch in anyway when you put the gun up in his face? Mr. BAKER. No, sir. Mr. DULLES. There is no testimony that he put the gun up in his face. Mr. BAKER. I had my gun talking to him like this. Mr. DULLES. Yes. Mr. BELIN. How close was your gun to him if it wasn't the face whatever part of the body it was? Mr. BAKER. About as far from me to you. Mr. BELIN. That would be about how far? Mr. BAKER. Approximately 3 feet. Mr. BELIN. Did you notice, did he say anything or was there any expression after Mr. Truly said he worked here? Mr. BAKER. At that time I never did look back toward him. After he says, "Yes, he works here," I turned immediately and run on up, I halfway turned then when I was talking to Mr. Truly. I purposely included a great deal of testimony for the sake of getting a feel for whay it was like for Baker. However, I found it intersting, that in his later testimony, he stated that he saw two men on the first floor but he didn't approach them at all?? Russ