Subject: KNUDSEN-1 Date: 19 Jul 1999 19:16:46 GMT From: droberdeau@aol.com (DRoberdeau) Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk HSCA DEPOSITION OF ROBERT KNUDSEN, 8/11/78 Robert Knudsen developed the black and white autopsy photographs. He claims to have seen a negative showing at least two probes through the President's body. ----- Stenographic Transcript Of HEARINGS Before The John F. Kennedy Subcomittee of the SELECT COMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Washington, D.C. August 11, 1978 Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. Official Reporters 300 Seventh St., S.W., Washington, D.C. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 1 EXECUTIVE SESSION - - - FRIDAY, AUGUST 11, 1978 - - - U.S. House of Representatives, Subcommittee on the Assassina- tion of John F. Kennedy of the Select Committee on Assassinations, Washington, D.C. The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:35 a.m. on the third floor, Annex No. 2, Present: Donald A. Purdy and Mark Flanigan. The Reporter: Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. Knudsen: I do. Page 2 STATEMENT OF ROBERT L. KNUDSEN Mr. Purdy. Good morning. My name is Donald A. Purdy, Jr. I am Staff Counsel to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. We are now in House Annex No. 2 in Washington, D.C. and the date is August 11th, 1978 and the time is 9:35 a.m. Present are Mr. Robert Knudsen, Mark Flanigan of our staff, and myself. Mr. Knudsen, pursuant to House Resolution 222 and Committee Rule 4, I am a designated counsel, empowered to take statements under oath, and you have been previously sworn here today. For the record, please state your name and address? Mr. Knudsen. Robert L. Knudsen, 3712 Woodburn Road, Anabel, Virginia. Mr. Purdy. Your phone number? Mr. Knudsen. 280-3226. Mr. Purdy. Do you understand that this testimony you are about to give is being given voluntarily? Mr. Knudsen. Yes. Mr. Purdy. You are not under a subpoena, is that correct? Mr. Knudsen. That is correct. Mr. Purdy. You recognize that you have the right to have an attorney present? Mr. Knudsen. Yes. Mr. Purdy. You have decided you do not want one? Mr. Knudsen. Right. Page 3 Mr. Purdy. Do you Understand that any time during the questioning you can refuse to answer specific questions. Mr. Knudsen. Right. Mr. Purdy. You also may terminate the deposition at any time? Mr. Knudsen. Right. Mr. Purdy. You also recognize that the fact that you do not have an attorney does not mean you cannot bring one in during the deposition? Mr. Knudsen. That is right. Mr. Purdy. I have given you copies of the Committee Rules and House Resolutions 222 and 433 and 760 for you to read and also I have pointed out to you Committee Rule No. 4. Have you had a chance to read that? Mr. Knudsen. Yes. Mr. Purdy. As you can see, the deposition is being trans- cribed. We will have a copy of this deposition made and provide you with a copy so you can read it and make any corrections, typographical or transitional changes that you feel are appropri- ate. Mr. Knudsen. Right. Mr. Purdy. Could you please state for us what your position was during the early 1960's? Mr. Knudsen. I was a White House photographer. Mr. Purdy. During what years did you hold that position? Page 4 Mr. Knudsen. 1958 to 1974. Nr. Purdy. Were you a member of a staff, or did you have a staff under you? Mr. Knudsen. Well, it varied with the time, 1958 through 1963, I operated more or less on my own in the Navy, Chief Photographer. I was operating out of the Naval Aide's Office. However, I took my orders and requests directly from the President's secretary. Mr. Purdy. Who was that at that time? Mr. Knudsen. Evelyn Lincoln during the Kennedy assassina- tion, during the Kennedy Administration. During the Eisenhower Administration in the late 50's, the orders were related to the Naval Aide. In `58 and `59, I took orders from the Naval Aide. Mr. Purdy. During the Kennedy Administration, did you work under another White House photographer, or did you have a staff under you, or did you work by yourself? Mr. Knudsen. Well, there were two of us, myself and Cecil Stughon. He more or less covered the First Lady's activities; I covered the President's activities. Mr. Purdy. During what years did you cover the President's activities? Mr. Knudsen. From his Inauguration right through the assassination and the funeral. Mr. Purdy. How do you spell the last name of the other photographer? Page 5 Mr. Knudsen. S-t-u-g-h-o-n. Mr. Purdy. Your responsibilities were for the President and not for the First Lady? Mr. Knudsen. That is correct. I photographed the President's activities and appointments and social functions. Mr. Purdy. When did you first become aware of the existence of photographs of the autopsy of President Kennedy? Mr. Knudsen. The morning following the autopsy, Dr. Berkley -- to the best of my knowledge, Dr. Berkley had the film holders in a brown paper bag and handed them to me. Jim Fox, the Secret Service expert, was told to go over and develop them and see that they were secure at all times. Mr. Purdy. Who gave you those orders? Mr. Knudsen. I believe Dr. Berkley at that time. He said to develop them and see that they were secure. Jim Fox was right there and the two of us went over to do the developing. Mr. Purdy. Did Mr. Fox have some specific responsibilities relative to the White House photographers' office? Is that why he worked with you? Mr. Knudsen. Jim Fox was the Secret Service photographer. Mr. Purdy. Had you worked closely with him before? Mr. Knudsen. On occasion, we had. Mr. Purdy. Could you describe for us your involvement in the transfer of the films over to where they were going to be processed, and what role you played in the processing? Page 6 Mr. Knudsen. Jim and I got into the White House staff car to go over to the Naval Photographic Center. They were black and white and color. I took the black and white in one dark room and gave the color -- I believe it was Vince Mendona who took the color into the adjoining color dark room so we could process simultaneously. So, while Jim Fox stood outside to see that we were not disturbed -- Mr. Purdy. You processed the black and whites? Mr. Knudsen. Yes. Mr. Purdy. You processed it at the Naval Photographic Center, or Processing Center? Mr. Knudsen. Naval Photographic Center. Mr. Purdy. Did anyone help you process those? Mr. Knudsen. No. Mr. Purdy. You were in the room completely by yourself? Mr. Knudsen. That is right. Mr. Purdy. Were you present during the processing of the color films? Mr. Knudsen. No. I was in the black and white dark room processing and the color was in the next room being processed. Mr. Purdy. It is your recollection that Lt. Vince Mendona processed the color? Mr. Knudsen. I believe Vince did. I will not swear to that. Page 7 Mr. Purdy. You believe -- Mr. Knudsen. Vince could have handed it to one of the technicians and had him do it. I do not know. I was in a hurry to get it done, so I went right in the dark room and started processing. Mr. Purdy. To the best of your knowledge, James Fox stood outside and was in neither dark room? Mr. Knudsen. That is right. Mr. Purdy. You processed the black and white film holders, is that correct? Mr. Knudsen. That is correct. Mr. Purdy. Were any of the film holders blank on either or both sides? Mr. Knudsen. No black and whites. I have been thinking about it. There could have been an unexposed sheet. In the back of my mind, there is something about an unexposed sheet of the color film. No empty holders. Mr. Purdy. Unexposed sheet of color film? Mr. Knudsen. In the back of my mind it seems there might have been one, but we accounted for that by bringing the blank sheet with us. In other words, we brought a sheet of film for -- there are two sheets back for every holder. Mr. Purdy. One of the sheets, was it overexposed or under- exposed, the one that was blank? Mr. Knudsen. If it was blank, I would say it probably was Page 8 not exposed. All of the other exposures were good exposures. Mr. Purdy. It is your recollection that it was blank? Mr. Knudsen. If there was a missing negative, it was a completely unexposed piece of film. Mr. Purdy. That was among the color film holders? Mr. Knudsen. That is a possibility. I would not say there was one. In the back of my mind there seems to be one piece of film that was without image. Mr. Purdy. It is your specific recollection at this time that there were no empty black and white film holders? Mr. Knudsen. That is correct. Mr. Purdy. It is also your recollection that there were no blank images on any of the black and white film holders? Mr. Knudsen. That is correct. Mr. Purdy. It is also your recollection if there was a blank film in one of the color film holders, you retained it? Mr. Knudsen. Very definitely. We would not destroy anything Mr. Purdy. What did you do with these materials? Mr. Knudsen. After they were dry, I took them back to the White House. Right offhand, I do not recall how long it was until a decision was made for seven sets of prints to be made. Mr. Purdy. Approximately how long after the autopsy were these films developed? Was it the morning after, as you said before? Mr. Knudsen. Yes. Page 9 Mr. Purdy. It was also -- when that day did you return? Mr. Knudsen. Developing them? Mr. Purdy. Yes. Mr. Knudsen. Developing takes -- the film drying, and all, an hour and a half, two hours. I would say that we were gone less than two hours. Mr. Purdy. Is it your recollection that you returned them in the morning, or the afternoon that day? Mr. Knudsen. I could not tell you, because I had been up all night. From the assassination right on, we worked right on through that night through the following day and the next night. Hours, I could not tell you. Mr. Purdy. Where did you take the developed negatives? Mr. Knudsen. The developed negatives went back, were retained by the Secret Service until we made prints. Mr. Purdy. You returned them to the Secret Service? Mr. Knudsen. Yes. After we developed them, we took them back to the west wing of the White House to the Secret Service office. Mr. Purdy. Did you turn them over, or were you present when they were turned over to some other Secret Service personnel, other than James Fox? Mr. Knudsen. Jim Fox and I were together until we got back to the White House. Then the Secret Service -- to the best of my recollection, they were in Jim's hands when we went out of the Page 10 staff car to go to the Secret Service. Mr. Purdy. Who did he give them to? Mr. Knudsen. I do not recall. Mr. Purdy. Did he give them to Mr. Balk? Mr. Knudsen. I do not recall who it was. Mr. Purdy. Who was his superior at that time? Mr. Knudsen. I do not know. Mr. Purdy. Under whose orders were you operating when you took the film to be processed and then returned it? Mr. Knudsen. Dr. Berkley, the one who gave me the film. Mr. Purdy. You had the processed black and white and color film that you turned over, is that correct? Mr. Knudsen. That is correct. Mr. Purdy. Were they black and white negatives, transparen- cies, or both? Mr. Knudsen. Black and white negatives, color negatives. Mr. Purdy. They were color negatives. Were there color transparencies? Mr. Knudsen. No. Mr. Purdy. At that time, did you examine the black and white or color negatives to see what the images were on them? Mr. Knudsen. I examined them for the purpose to see that we had good negatives. In the examination, I did see the images, but did not study them. Mr. Purdy. Did you examine both the black and white and ------------------------------------------------------------- Don CV67 USS John F. Kennedy Plank Walker sooner, or later, The Truth emerges, Clearly. as with y2k...are you Prepared? (165 dtg)