Record Number 180-10090-10044 Agency File Number 006185 Originator-HSCA From: O'Neill, Francis X. To: Date: 11/10/78 Pages: 19 Subjects: Kennedy, John; Motorcade Kennedy, John; Autopsy Evidence; Weapons, Bullets Evidence; Medical, Wound Ballistics FBI Drawing(s) of President's Wounds Witnesses to autopsy Date of Release: 10/6/93 Contents: Outside Contact Report on 1/10/78 interview by HSCA investigators Andy Purdy, James P. Kelly and T. Mark Flanagan with Francis X. O'Neill. Report accompanied by two drawings of wounds made by O'Neill. Letter dated November 8, 1978 from Francis X. O'Neill to Donald A. Purdy regarding corrections to an affidavit prepared for O'Neill by Purdy and finally, the official affidavit itself. Document follows in full. KENNEDY SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS NAME Francis X. O'Neill, Jr. DATE 1/10/78 TIME 9:30 a.m. ADDRESS FBI Office PLACE Mr. O'Neill's Office New Haven, Connecticut INTERVIEW: Francis X. O'Neill, Jr. is currently the Assistant Special Agent in charge [sic] of the FBI at the New Haven, Connecticut office. His business phone is (203) 777-6311. The Committee is interviewing him because of his presence at the autopsy of President Kennedy. At the time of the assassination, O'Neill was an FBI agent stationed in Hyattsville, Maryland and received his orders from the Baltimore field office. At approximately 5:30pm [sic] on 11/22/63 he and James W. Sibert, also an FBI agent, received orders to stay with JFK's body as soon as it arrived at Andrews Air Force Base. When the body arrived at Andrews Air Force Base, it was taken off the Air Force I [sic] and placed in an ambulance which Jackie Kennedy and RFK also entered. O'Neill stated that he rode in the "2nd car of the motorcade". [sic] Upon arriving at Bethesda, O'Neill stated that the ambulance stopped at the front entrance where Jackie and RFK disembarked to proceed to the 17th floor. The ambulance INTERVIEWER /s/ Andy Purdy James P. Kelly / Donald A. Purdy, Jr. / T. Mark Glanagan, Jr. [sic] DATE TRANSCRIBED 1/31/78 BY mcp [end of page one] Francis X. O'Neill Interview Page 2 then travelled to the rear where O'Neill, Sibert, Greer (Secret Service), and Kellerman (Secret Service) placed the casket on a roller and transported it into the autopsy room. O'Neill stated that he was present when various persons placed the body on the autopsy table. Doctors then proceeded to remove the sheet covering JFK and to photograph the body. O'Neill said that he remained "right next to the body," a distance of closer than two yards. O'Neill said that Sibert, Greer and Kellerman were always present. During the autopsy, O'Neill stated that he had lengthy conversations with Greer and Kellerman in which they discussed the entire circumstances of the assassination. When the autopsy doctor appeared to have no idea of where the bullet entering the back may have gone, O'Neill mentioned that he began discussing with others possible "outlets for the bullet." O'Neill also stated that during the autopsy he prevented the entry of Major General Wehle into the room (he said that he didn't know who he was). O'Neill said [end of page two] Francis X. O'Neill Interview Page 3 that he and Sibert "sent around a piece of paper and had (everyone) enter their names." O'Neill stated that when Humes and Boswell couldn't locate an outlet for the bullet that entered the back Sibert left to call SA Killion (FBI Laboratory) to determine if any extra bullets existed. This is when the autopsy doctors learned of the bullet found on the stretcher. O'Neill also stated, that as he understood it, "Mrs. Kennedy gave permission for a partial autopsy" and that Dr. George Burkley reiterated her remarks. O'Neill feels that there was "no question" that Burkley was conveying the wishes of the Kennedy family. On the issue of the full vs. partial autopsy, O'Neill said that Admiral Galloway resolved this by ordering a complete autopsy. At this point, O'Neill stated that in reference to the back wound, that the doctors "did not cut through into the back of the neck." O'Neill firmly believes that when the autopsy was complete there was no doubt in anyone's mind that the bullet in Dallas was the one that came out of JFK's body. O'Neill states that Humes did call Parkland on 11/23/63 to learn more about the bullet found on the stretcher (399). [end of page three] Francis X. O'Neill Interview Page 4 O'Neill said that he had no recollection of any bullet damage around the trachea. In describing the autopsy room, O'Neill stated that a "phone and a coffee machine" were present. During the autopsy an FBI agent and a Secret Service man were always present. O'Neill stated that he only left once with Kellerman and McHugh to obtain a sandwich. O'Neill said that no presidential aides were present either around the table or in the gallery. O'Neill did say that sometime during the autopsy O'Leary and Hill, both Secret Service, entered the room. O'Neill said that if a person wasn't present at the beginning of the autopsy and not listed as having entered late, then he didn't witness any of the autopsy. O'Neill stated that he heard Humes claim that the bullets entered from a 45-60 degree angle. O'Neill did say that Pierre Finck was "more atuned [sic] to the angle of the bullets" that entered JFK's body. In reference to the head wound, O'Neill recalled that it was massive and pointed towards the right side of his (O'Neill's) head. O'Neill believes the doctors removed a piece of the missle [sic] from just behind an eye and another one from further back. O'Neill stated that a Navy man [end of page four] Francis X. O'Neill Interview Page 5 entered to make a receipt of the two fragments that were removed from the body. O'Neill emphatically stated that the doctors removed only two fragments and not "a missle". [sic] O'Neill said that someone then transported the two fragments to the FBI laboratory [sic] where they were then given to SA Kurt Frazier. O'Neill mentioned that the doctors just wanted to obtain the large fragments and that many small fragments did exist. O'Neill said that the autopsy doctors felt that the bullet that entered the head struck the center, low portion of the head and exited from the top, right side, towards the front. At this point in the interview, O'Neill diagramed the location of the head wounds based on his recollections. (See attachments). [sic] O'Neill stated that he does not recall Humes, Boswell, or Finck calling out measurements for the wounds but this may have occurred. He does remember the doctors measuring the piece of skull that was found in the limousine and brought to Bethesda during the autopsy. O'Neill stated that in his opinion JFK could have had an open casket. He also stated that the medical [end of page five] Francis X. O'Neill Interview Page 6 illustrator that the Commission employed did not accurately depict the President's wounds. O'Neill does not recall which doctor was taking the notes on the autopsy but does recollect that Finck seemed to "take over the autopsy when he arrived." O'Neill mentioned that he does not see how the bullets that entered below the shoulder in the back "could have come out of the throat." O'Neill also said he disagreed with Dr. Boswell's depiction of the location of the back (thorax) wound which Dr. Boswell had drawn on a diagram during an interview with this Committee this past fall. O'Neill stated that he did not recall anything about the tracheotomy incision that indicated a bullet had damaged the area. When shown the tracing of the tracheotomy, he had no recollection or comment concerning the apparent bullet wound perimeter. O'Neill stated that some discussion did occur concerning the disintegration of the bullet. A "general feeling" existed that a soft-nosed bullet struck JFK. In reference to the back wound, there was discussion that the bullet could have been a "plastic" type or an "Ice" [sic] [end of page six] Francis X. O'Neill Interview Page 7 bullet (dissolves after contact). There was also no real sense either way that the wounds were caused by the same kind of bullet. O'Neill does not recall who handled the X-rays or photographs. Robert Bouck (Secret Service) stated that the photographs could have been made available if desired. The FBI did not keep the photographs since the case was somewhat outside of their jurisdiction. Concerning the Secret Service agents, O'Neill mentioned that Greer seemed like a nice guy but that Kellerman seemed to be the stronger man. O'Neill stated that the FBI obtained the bullet fragments because Hoover wanted them. O'Neill described the general level of activity in the autopsy room as "reverent" and "no kidding-solemn". [sic] He said the doctors were performing a "workman-like job." O'Neill did not discuss any procedures with the embalmers. O'Neill last saw the body just prior to the dressing, before the morticians were through. O'Neill said that the tissues and organs taken from JFK were verified and that Doctor Humes then assumed care and custody of these materials. He does not recall [end of page seven] Francis X. O'Neill Interview Page 8 what subsequently happened to these materials. O'Neill mentioned that on November 27 or 28 he prepared a memo for the file in the Baltimore field office [sic] dealing with the partial or full autopsy issue. This memo would have been from O'Neill to SAC Baltimore and would have been anywhere from 8-10 lines in length. O'Neill emphasized that this was a separate memo. O'Neill then stated that as far as he knew the doctors performed a full autopsy. O'Neill mentioned that almost all FBI agents were involved in some aspect of the case. Although O'Neill was interviewed at length by Arlen Specter, he felt it was odd that he was not called to give testimony. As a suggestion for this Committee's investigation, O'Neill recommended pursuing any words that may have been spoken between JFK and Jackie Kennedy during the shooting. O'Neill ended the interview by stating that he is "positive" that the bullet that entered the back came out of the back. [end of page eight] [Page Nine -- O'Neill Outside Contact Report -- Unnumbered] [This page shows the front and rear outlines of the human body as shown on the typical autopsy report face sheet. On these O'Neill has drawn the wounds as he recalls them. FRONT OF BODY: in the midline of the throat he has drawn a rather wide line extending approximately one third of the way to the sides of the neck on either side of the drawing. He has not indicated any wound to the head on this drawing. REAR OF BODY: in the midline of the head approximately at the point the external occipital protuberance would be, O'Neill has indicated (with a "dot") the entry wound to the head. From the right lateral portion of the entry wound, extending slightly below it posteriorly, and almost to the top of the head superiorly, O'Neill has indicated with a half circle the massive wound to the head. The remainder of the page is handwritten.] 1/10/78 /s/ Francis X. O'Neill, Jr. Witnessed by: /s/ Donald A. Purdy, Jr. /s/ T. Mark Flanagan, Jr. [end of page nine] [Page Ten -- O'Neill Outside Contact Report -- Unnumbered] [On this page O'Neill has very neatly drawn the human figure from just below the shoulder area up, in both the right lateral and posterior views. RIGHT LATERAL VIEW: On the anterior side at approximately the point where the tracheotomy incision would be, O'Neill has drawn a short thin line and labeled it (in long hand) "Trach." On the posterior side of the figure and appreciably below the tracheotomy incision (roughly 1 1/2 to 2 inches if life sized), O'Neill has indicated with a "*" the wound to the back. On the rear of the head, well into the hairline (which O'Neill has drawn), but appreciably below the "cowlick," O'Neill has indicated with a "dot" the entry wound to the rear of the head -- and has labeled this dot "Entry." It is approximately even with the top of the ears. He has then drawn in the massive wound showing it extending beneath the entry wound, almost to the hairline, and tapering up to a short distance above the tip of the ear. He has indicated with a line extending to just behind the ear and in the lower portion of the head that this is the exit wound. He has labeled it "Exit." POSTERIOR VIEW: At a point equivalent to roughly the third or fourth thoracic vertebra, O'Neill has indicated with a "dot" the entry wound in the back. He has labeled this dot "Entry." On the head O'Neill has drawn a "dot" slightly (1/8 inch) to the right of midline and labeled it "Entry." From the lower right lateral edge of the entry wound, he has drawn a line tapering downward towards the lower portion of the ear -- it extends to the right edge of the "head." From the upper right lateral edge of the entry wound, he has drawn a line tapering upward to the edge of the head, and meeting the edge of the head roughly midway from the way from the top of the ear and the topmost portion of the head. He has drawn a line to the right lateral edge of this wound one third of the way between the top of the ear and the top of the wound and labeled it "Exit." The remainder of the page is in longhand.] 1/10/78 /s/ Francis X. O'Neill, Jr. Witnessed by: /s/ Donald A. Purdy, Jr. /s/ T. Mark Flanagan, Jr. [end of page nine] FRANK X. O'NEILL, JR. 47 Valley Shore Drive Guilford, Conn. 06437 November 8, 1978 Mr. Donald A. Purdy, Jr. House Select Committee on Assassinations U.S. House of Representatives Washington, D.C. 20515 Dear Mr. Purdy: Reference is made to your letter of October 18, 1978 in which you enclosed an affidavit based on an interview conducted by the staff of the Select Committee on Assassinations with me on January 10, 1978. I have reviewed the affidavit and noted several minor changes which necessitated correction. Rather than have the affidavit marred by cross-outs and additions, I had it redone and signed it in the presence of a notary public. The changes in my way of thinking were minor but were necessary to properly convey the information which I furnished you during interview supra. If I can be of any further assistance in this matter, do not hesitate to contact me. Best wishes. Sincerely your, /s/ Francis X. O'Neill, Jr. FRANCIS X. O'NEILL, JR. Former Assistant Special Agent in Charge, Federal Bureau of Investigation, State of Connecticut [end of letter] AFFIDAVIT I, Francis X. O'Neill, Jr., a resident of Guilford, Connecticut, being duly sworn, make oath as follows: I was interviewed on January 10, 1978 in the FBI Office in New Haven, Connecticut by T. Mark Flanagan, Jr., James Kelly, and Donald A. Purdy, Jr. of the staff of the Select Committee on Assassinations. During this interview, I set forth the substance of the information which follows. At this time I reaffirm that this information is accurate and truthful to the best of my knowledge. This statement is made freely, voluntarily, and without threats, promises, assurances, or remuneration from any source. At the time of the assassination, I was an FBI agent stationed in Hyattsville, Maryland and received my orders from the Baltimore Field Office. At approximately 5:30 pm on 11/22/63, James W. Sibert, also of the FBI, and I received orders to stay with President John F. Kennedy's (JFK) body as soon as it arrived at Andrews Air Force Base. When the body arrived at Andrews Air Force Base, it was taken off the Air Force I [sic] and placed in an ambulance which Jackie Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy (RFK) also entered. I rode in the "2nd car of the [end of page one] Page 2 motorcade". [sic] Upon arriving at the National Naval Medical Center of [sic] Bethesda, the ambulance stopped at the front entrance where Jackie and RFK disembarked to proceed to the 17th floor. The ambulance then travelled to the rear where Sibert, Bill Greer (Secret Service), and Roy Kellerman (Secret Service) and I placed the casket on a roller and transported it into the autopsy room. I was present when various persons placed the body on the autopsy table. Doctors then proceeded to remove the sheet covering JFK and to photograph the body. X-rays were also taken at this time. I remained right next to the body, a distance of less than two yards during the entire length of the actual autopsy except for a short period of time when I left to get a sandwich. Sibert, Greer and Kellerman were also present during the entire length of the autopsy. During the autopsy, I had lengthy conversations with Greer and Kellerman in which we discussed the entire circumstances of the assassination. When the autopsy doctor appeared to have no idea of where the bullet entering the back may have gone, the doctors began discussing other possible outlets for the bullet. [end of page two] Page 3 During the autopsy, I prevented the entry of Major General Wehle, Commander, Military District of Washington, into the room because I did not want anyone in the autopsy room not directly connected with the autopsy or the assassination investigation. Sibert and I had sent around a piece of paper and had everyone enter their name on the list who was in attendance when the autopsy began. When Humes and Boswell couldn't locate an outlet for the bullet that entered the back Sibert left to call SA Killion (FBI Laboratory) to determine if any extra bullets existed. He was advised of the finding of a bullet on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital in Dallas and relayed this information to the autopsy surgeons. I know for a fact that when the autopsy was complete, there was no doubt in anyone's mind in attendance at the autopsy that the bullet found to the stretcher in Dallas came out of JFK's body. I understand that Humes did call Parkland on 11/23/63 and learned at that time that a tracheotomy had been performed over a wound in the President's throat. As I understood it, Mrs. Jackie Kennedy gave permission for a partial autopsy and Dr. George Burkley reiterated her remarks. There was no question that Burkley was conveying the wishes of the Kennedy family. On the issue [end of page three] Page 4 of the full vs. partial autopsy. Admiral Galloway resolved this by ordering a complete autopsy after checking with the FBI and Secret Service Agents in attendance. In reference to the back wound, that the doctors "did not cut through into the back of the neck." [sic] I have no recollection of any bullet damage around the trachea. The autopsy room had a phone and a coffee pot. During the autopsy an FBI agent and a Secret Service man were always present. I left once with Kellerman and Air Force General Godfrey McHugh, the Presidential Aide, to obtain a sandwich. Sometime during the autopsy O'Leary and Hill, both of the Secret Service, entered the room. If a person wasn't present at the beginning of the autopsy or was listed as having entered later, then he didn't witness any of the autopsy. I heard Humes claim that the bullets entered from a 45-60 degree angle. Pierre Finck seemed more atuned [sic] to the angle of the bullets that entered JFK's body. I recall that the head wound was massive and pointed towards the right side of his head. I saw the doctors remove a piece of the missile from just behind an eye and another one from further back in the head. A Navy man [end of page four] Page 5 entered the room to make a receipt for the two fragments that were removed from the body which Sibert and I signed for. The doctors removed only two fragments and not a full "missile". [sic] Sibert and I then transported the two fragments to the FBI Laboratory where they were then given to SA Kurt Frazier. The doctors obtained the large fragments; many small fragments were also in the head, but they were not removed. The autopsy doctors felt that the bullet that entered the head struck the center, low portion of the head and exited from the top, right side, towards the front. I do recall Humes, Boswell, and/or Finck calling out measurements for the wounds. I do remember the doctors measuring the piece of skull that was found in the limousine and brought to Bethesda during the autopsy. In my opinion, JFK could have had an open casket. The medical illustrator that the Commission employed did not accurately depict the President's wounds. I do not recall which doctor was taking the notes during the autopsy, but Finck seemed to take over the autopsy when he arrived. I do not see how the bullets [note: the "s" in the word "bullets" has been crossed out and initialed by O'Neill] that entered below the shoulder in the back could have come out the front of the throat. During the interview on January 10, 1978, I disagreed with Dr. Boswell's depiction of the location [end of page five] Page 6 of the back (thorax) wound which Dr. Boswell had drawn on a diagram during an interview with this Committee in the Fall [sic] of 1977. I do not recall anything about the tracheotomy incision that indicated a bullet had damaged the area. When shown the tracing of the tracheotomy, I had no recollection or comment concerning the apparent bullet wound perimeter. It was and is my opinion that the bullet which entered the back came out the back. Some discussion did occur concerning the disintegration of the bullet. A general feeling existed that a soft-nosed bullet struck JFK. There was discussion concerning the back wound that the bullet could have been a "plastic" type or an "Ice" [sic] bullet, one which dissolves after contact. There was no real sense either way that the wounds were caused by the same kind of bullet. The medical people handled the x-rays [sic], the Secret Service the photographs. Roy Kellerman told me that Robert Bouck (Secret Service) would make the photographs taken during the autopsy available to the FBI if desired. The FBI obtained the bullet fragments so that the FBI Laboratory would make a determination as to their composition and if possible caliber. The general level of activity in the autopsy room was reverent with no kidding around. The doctors appeared to [end of page six] Page 7 me to have performed in a workman-like manner. I did not discuss any autopsy procedures with the embalmers. I last saw the body just prior to the dressing, after the morticians were through. The tissues and organs taken from JFK were verified and Doctor Humes then assumed care and custody of these materials. I do not recall what subsequently happened to these materials. On November 27 or 28, 1963, I prepared a memo for the file in the Baltimore Field Office dealing with the partial or full autopsy issue. This memo would have been from me to SAC Baltimore and would have been anywhere from 8-10 lines in length. This memo was separate from our joint reports. To my knowledge, the doctors performed a full autopsy. All FBI Offices were involved in some aspect of the Kennedy assassination investigation. Although I was interviewed at length by Arlen Specter, an attorney for the Warren Commission, I felt it was odd that I was not called to give oral testimony. I understand that this affidavit may be introduced and received into evidence by the Select Committee on Assassinations of the United States House of Representatives, and may lead them to make various findings of fact, and the [end of page seven] Page 8 statutes applicable to Congressional investigations, including but not limited to those concerning false statements, obstruction, or misleading, [sic] would subject me to criminal penalties for not telling the whole and complete truth in this affidavit. /s/ Francis S. O'Neill, Jr. Francis X. O'Neill, Jr. Signed and sworn to before me this 8th day of November, 1978. /s/ Jules E. Yarnel NOTARY PUBLIC JULES E. YARNELL Notary Public, State of New York No. 60-9764725 Qualified in Westchester County Certificate filed in New York County Commission Expires March 30, 1980 My Commission Expires: March 30, 1980 [end of page eight and end of document]